App Store changes look like a free ride to some developers

Jump to First Reply
Posted:
in iOS

Developers can now direct users in-app to pay for subscriptions outside of the App Store, but the road is not smooth, and there are some pitfalls.

Blue cube with rounded edges featuring a white 3D overlapping sticks design resembling the App Store logo, placed on a wooden surface.
The App Store is the only global business anyone expects to be run for free - image Credit: Apple



Apple in the US now has to allow developers in the App Store to direct users to their own websites, or other third-party payment systems. While its conclusion seems exaggerated so far, The Information, claims that there is a gold rush as developers seize the change to avoid paying what they call an Apple tax.

"We work so hard to build this product, giving value to customers, and then Apple takes away 30% of our subscriptions," Otter CEO Sam Liang said. "It's completely insane."

Call it insane if you like, call it an Apple Tax if that makes you feel better, but this is really nothing more than wanting a free ride. Let's ask Laing when we can expect to put ads for AppleInsider on his Otter.ai transcription website for free.

It's also not clear if they call the difference between what they get from, say, Microsoft in the Xbox Store, a Microsoft tax. Or for folks selling boxed software or gift cards at WalMart a retail tax.

Apparently the makers of Cameo, which lets users buy personalized messages from celebrities, worked until 2 A.M. one night to get alternative payment options ready. Let's ask them what hit their bottom line would take if there were no celebrities using iPhones, and no starstruck fans either.

In fact, by this logic, it's insane that fans would pay Cameo anything when they could just go straight to these celebrities. Except of course, other than in photo lines jammed with fans and paparazzi, fans can't do this easily or privately without the iPhone and the App Store that Apple makes.

And Otter's CEO is complaining about having to pay more and more to Apple, but what that means is his business is growing because of the App Store.

This is not a matter of perspective. There is no other company in the world that is required to give away a business it has grown, in a market that it literally created.

There is no other business in the world that is expected to run a global business providing a store to more than two billion active users, and do it for free.

Certainly Stripe won't perform payment processing for free. Reportedly, the company has been approaching app developers since the App Store mandated change, and offering to take over setting up these payment options.

It's only going to charge a 30 cent fee and a 2.9% cut of every transaction. That is unquestionably lower than Apple's 15% or 30%, but it isn't free.

There's also the question of just what Stripe or other payment processing firms count as part of their deal. Apple manages support, for example, and payment processing firms are not going to do any marketing for developers.

Apple created today's app market



If you were a developer before Apple launched the App Store, its top-level 30% fee is laughably small. With no costs of producing physical media, no boxes, no paying stores to stock your app, no transport costs whatsoever, you're retaining 70% of your retail fee.

And you're able to sell worldwide, which was unthinkable just a few years ago. Today it's easy, except for when it isn't -- Apple handles all of the international tax requirements so you don't have to.

It isn't insane that there is a cost to doing business. Instead it's insulting that CEOs think we'll swallow this and instead of paying Apple our money, run to pay them instead.

Even The Information does accept that there are developers who are hesitating about third-party app stores, and it's partly because of user resistance. Reportedly, an unspecified percentage of users who click an external payment link will not complete the transaction because of the extra steps this requires.

Apple would argue that it's also that users can trust it, where they may not know exactly who they are paying if they use alternative systems. They certainly have less security over any personal credit details being sold on.

There's also a fear that Apple will punish such apps by burying them in the App Store, or simply never featuring them in its various highlight features or promotions. If that doesn't tell developers that Apple is how they get customers, nothing will.

What happens next



Separate research says users would need a big discount if they were to be persuaded to move subscriptions out of Apple's App Store payment system. Some developers are doing exactly that, with yoga app Down Dog using discounts to incentivize users to move.

Down Dog already had an existing online payment option, but says it had been getting 70% of new subscribers paying via Apple. Now it's already down to 30%.

So it's working for some developers and consequently, all developers want the same rise in income -- and to keep all of the benefits of being on the App Store.

That's not entirely fair, since there are developers who instead argue that Apple should just reduce its fees. Maybe there's an argument to be made there, or maybe it's just a hope for at least a cheaper ride instead of a free one.

Developers need Apple and Apple needs developers. App companies can't expect Apple to support their businesses with only the hope that they might sell a few more iPhones to pay for it.

Note that Apple has tried to stop this through an appeal to pause the injunction that has forced external linking on it, but it has failed.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    Alreschaalrescha Posts: 35member
    I'm waiting for Apple to start selling the "Apple Phone".  No App Store, just Apple's preinstalled software.  The beginning of the end of Apple's egalitarian experiment.
    edited June 6
    williamlondondanox
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 20
    Alrescha said:
    I'm waiting for Apple to start selling the "Apple Phone".  No App Store, just Apple's preinstalled software.  The beginning of the end of Apple's egalitarian experiment.
    Yeah, and developers can just deliver web apps.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 20
    peterypetery Posts: 1member
    Third party stores are a real hassle when it comes
    to refunds. Apple App Store refunds occur within 48 hours.
    Third party requests for refunds take forever and it’s hard to deal or find their customer service department.

    teejay2012danoxknoxDavid
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 20
    humbug1873humbug1873 Posts: 209member
    What happens next!? Apple will charge for the developer API and tools (XCode) again and probably lot's of it in a monthly subscription model. Beginners can use Apple Playgrounds. Greedy Tim can't think in any other way.
    Djacobswilliamlondonteejay2012danoxelijahgdewmespliff monkey
     1Like 6Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 20
    Djacobsdjacobs Posts: 7member
    Referring to Apple as 'Greedy Tim' is very short sighted. Tim has a job to do. His job is to generate ROI for investors. They are a publicly traded company, whose only purpose is to generate profit. The view that publicly traded companies exist for any other purpose is both short-sighted and ill-informed. Companies that virtue-signal by doing otherwise always course correct when those ideas start to hurt the bottom line, and thus the stock price, which is the measurement of their success. 

    That all being said, Apple SHOULD make money from providing the platform, the tools, the support, the marketing, and the market. Every other company gets paid when they do these things. The app store is NOT a monopoly. Nor is the iPhone. You have a choice to buy an iPhone, or a different phone. When you make that CHOICE, you agree to the rules that come with buying the product. Just as the developer shave a choice to produce apps for the iPhone or not. If the business terms are so terrible dealing with Apple, then don't develop for Apple products. Develop an app so good that users will switch platforms to buy your app.
    williamlondontiredskillsFidonet127teejay2012dewme
     4Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 20
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,118member
    One way or another, Apple will find a way to be compensated for its IP and its own store 

    Perhaps they start charging developers based on downloads, active users, API calls, etc… 

    In which case Apple could earn billions of dollars from free apps like META 


     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 20
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 432member
    App Store hosting fee, increasing price for App Development software that is differential on sales numbers, giving advanced notice of iOS changes to an inner core of developers, implementing Core Technology Fee in US...  Apple should be paid for the stuff they invented and costs money to support.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 20
    randylrandyl Posts: 8member
    This is not a matter of perspective. There is no other company in the world that is required to give away a business it has grown, in a market that it literally created.


    There is no other business in the world that is expected to run a global business providing a store to more than two billion active users, and do it for free.


    Apple doesn't give away a business it has grown nor do provide a store to two billion active users for free.  I paid $1299 for my iPhone and Apple's hardware margins are extraordinary! I love having the choice to potentially pay less directly to a developer! Rather than frame as choice between Apple's ridiculous 15%/30% tax or unsecure/scary/horrible links to third parties, it would be great if this publication could advocate for what's in the consumer's best interest.  I'm guessing there is a more optimal way that is secure/easy for the consumer, fairer to the developer considering I'm subsidizing the app store with my iphone purchase, and fair to Apple (maybe a minimal (low single digits) fee on top of transaction costs). 
    teejay2012williamlondonDjacobsdanox
     0Likes 4Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 20
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 432member
    randyl said:

    .. I'm guessing there is a more optimal way that is secure/easy for the consumer, fairer to the developer considering I'm subsidizing the app store with my iphone purchase....

    Nonsense really. You bought a high tech iPhone for a price you felt was worth it and I am pretty sure that like most of us, you never really thought of the App Store as part of your purchase price. By your logic, you should get 'all' of Apple's services because after all... 'you subsidized it all' with your iPhone purchase. Apple should get a return for inventing, developing and maintaining the App Store and it should be market forces that dictate what companies want to charge for products or services. If Apple charges too much... well we can move on.
    williamlondonmeterestnzDjacobsdanox
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 10 of 20
    It costs Apple money to run the app store so Apple have every right to charge a fee. If the devs don't like paying the 'Apple Tax', they should simply put up a price of their app to cover it.
    williamlondonteejay2012danox
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 20
    CheeseFreezecheesefreeze Posts: 1,416member
    petery said:
    Third party stores are a real hassle when it comes
    to refunds. Apple App Store refunds occur within 48 hours.
    Third party requests for refunds take forever and it’s hard to deal or find their customer service department.

    Not sure where you got this from. Got a refund on the Epic Store within 24 hours. 
    williamlondondanox
     0Likes 2Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 20
    CheeseFreezecheesefreeze Posts: 1,416member
    randyl said:

    .. I'm guessing there is a more optimal way that is secure/easy for the consumer, fairer to the developer considering I'm subsidizing the app store with my iphone purchase....

    Nonsense really. You bought a high tech iPhone for a price you felt was worth it and I am pretty sure that like most of us, you never really thought of the App Store as part of your purchase price. By your logic, you should get 'all' of Apple's services because after all... 'you subsidized it all' with your iPhone purchase. Apple should get a return for inventing, developing and maintaining the App Store and it should be market forces that dictate what companies want to charge for products or services. If Apple charges too much... well we can move on.

    Imagine you purchase a new apartment constructed by Apple Real Estate, you now have to take a mortgage from Apple Mortgages, and get all the groceries, water, gas, electricity and insurances from Apple with a 30% markup. 
    williamlondonteejay2012danox
     0Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 20
    looplessloopless Posts: 364member

    As a developer, I wholeheartedly concur with the arguments presented by the OP. The intricate tax and regulatory frameworks that Apple must navigate across diverse geographical regions justify the substantial 30% revenue share.

    And then you just publish the app and the money magically appears  in your bank account. 

    I would NEVER link to some external payment system. I can't imagine how easily that could break.  For example, User X wants to pay for a "Pro" version. With Apples in-app payment process, that's super easy for a developer to handle.  If you have an external payment system you have to "hope" that the company provides a reliable web API to check that feature has been paid for and somehow link that back to your user.  Privacy nightmare ? And if that external payment processor goes under?




    williamlondonteejay2012danoxknoxDavid
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 20
    How much of a percentage does Microsoft charge developers to be on their application store? (12% to 15% *if* the developer uses Microsoft's billing system)

    How much does SONY charge for games hosted on their Playstation store? (SONY charges a 30% fee on digital sales and in-app purchases)

    How much does STEAM charge developers to be on their store? (30% on game sales and in-app purchases, until you reach $10 million in sales - 25% - , and less after $50 million - 20%)

    How much does EPIC charge developers to be on their stores? (12% on games sales and in-app purchases)

    Where is the outrage over all of these platform providers 'gouging' developers, while arguably providing much much less than Apple... 
    Djacobswilliamlondonteejay2012danoxknoxDavid
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 20
    CheeseFreezecheesefreeze Posts: 1,416member
    How much of a percentage does Microsoft charge developers to be on their application store? (12% to 15% *if* the developer uses Microsoft's billing system)

    How much does SONY charge for games hosted on their Playstation store? (SONY charges a 30% fee on digital sales and in-app purchases)

    How much does STEAM charge developers to be on their store? (30% on game sales and in-app purchases, until you reach $10 million in sales - 25% - , and less after $50 million - 20%)

    How much does EPIC charge developers to be on their stores? (12% on games sales and in-app purchases)

    Where is the outrage over all of these platform providers 'gouging' developers, while arguably providing much much less than Apple... 
    You are not stuck with Steam of Epic Game Store on PC to release your product. 

    On PC you can directly sell and market your game without a game store involved, or you can find a smaller alternative store, or multiple sales channels. Your Windows or Linux PC doesn’t come pre-installed with these stores and they don’t block you from installing whatever store you want. 

    That’s the essential difference here; Apple is not in the market, Apple IS the market - it’s become thát big - and they also don’t allow for any competition on their locked platform. 

    The outlier here is Sony / PlayStation, or Microsoft / XBOX. iPhones and iPads are general-purpose computing devices and game consoles are not, but the argument to treat them differently is arguably weaker.

    Other arguments are that the console market is much smaller than the mobile phone market. The current regulatory focus (e.g., EU DMA) is on mobile platforms, not game consoles. Consoles are also subsidized hardware, where the business model expects exclusivity and commission on digital sales to recoup costs. But the argument remains weaker and I think the same regularity focus should be on these platforms. 




    williamlondonteejay2012danox
     0Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 20
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,803member
    What happens next!? Apple will charge for the developer API and tools (XCode) again and probably lot's of it in a monthly subscription model. Beginners can use Apple Playgrounds. Greedy Tim can't think in any other way.
    Since when does Adobe, Autodesk, Quark, Epic, Stream, Sony, or Nintendo give away Freebies to their software or infrastructure there is a fat charge in the end….
    edited June 8
    neoncatwilliamlondon
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 20
    I can’t help but wonder if Apple is better off with an entire new App Store app approach now - Basically that the effective standard should be you have the opportunity to provide web apps if you want to access iPhone user base. App Store becomes Apple partnered apps only where there’s a legal agreement to share a percentage of revenues for access to technology and the store - essentially, you become an Apple partner with a business agreement, so you get to be Apple stamped and branded if you want to be in the App Store. Immediately take the App Store down to Apple apps only after current generation, while telling everybody they need to develop road maps to web apps. Icing on the cake would be negotiate with Adobe to resurrect flash. lol. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 20
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 432member
    randyl said:

    .. I'm guessing there is a more optimal way that is secure/easy for the consumer, fairer to the developer considering I'm subsidizing the app store with my iphone purchase....

    Nonsense really. You bought a high tech iPhone for a price you felt was worth it and I am pretty sure that like most of us, you never really thought of the App Store as part of your purchase price. By your logic, you should get 'all' of Apple's services because after all... 'you subsidized it all' with your iPhone purchase. Apple should get a return for inventing, developing and maintaining the App Store and it should be market forces that dictate what companies want to charge for products or services. If Apple charges too much... well we can move on.

    Imagine you purchase a new apartment constructed by Apple Real Estate, you now have to take a mortgage from Apple Mortgages, and get all the groceries, water, gas, electricity and insurances from Apple with a 30% markup. 

    Another nonsense analogy.  Did I have a choice in buying this apartment? There were no other apartments? I would be with you if Apple had a monopoly on phones. But it doesn't.

    williamlondondanox
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 20
    dewmedewme Posts: 6,049member
    This all hinges on your time frame of reference. If you were developing and selling applications in the 1980s, 1990s, or early 2000s the model that Apple has put in place is a massive benefit and windfall for developers. Something like this was totally unheard of during those eras. Sure, you had shareware and stuff like that, but that was still a house of cards trying to stay up in a strong wind. I hate to use the word "entitled" but there's no other word that sufficiently describes the attitude of developers who believe that Apple should make such a broad, well managed, and frictionless software development, deployment, and update service available to developers for nothing. At its worse the 30% fee is chickenshit compared to the monetary and woefully limited alternatives that we had to accept in the not so distant past. 
    ihatescreennamesdanoxknoxDavidAlrescha
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 20
    croprcropr Posts: 1,148member
    Djacobs said:

    That all being said, Apple SHOULD make money from providing the platform, the tools, the support, the marketing, and the market. Every other company gets paid when they do these things. The app store is NOT a monopoly. Nor is the iPhone. You have a choice to buy an iPhone, or a different phone. When you make that CHOICE, you agree to the rules that come with buying the product. Just as the developer shave a choice to produce apps for the iPhone or not. If the business terms are so terrible dealing with Apple, then don't develop for Apple products. Develop an app so good that users will switch platforms to buy your app.
    I've been developing apps that are available on Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS and Android.  From the app developers point of view the App store was until very recently the only way to distribute my iOS version of the apps, while I have a secure distribution platform (made for downloading for Windows, macOS, Linux versions) that I was not allowed to use.  So indeed the App Store WAS a monopoly.   

    For my most successful app, an electronic voting system, the app makes only sense it is available on all platforms: my customers, which are NPO organisations, are only interested in a voting app if all common platforms are supported, so their members can use any devices during the general assembly.  For the voting app, roughly 75% of the users use Windows or Android, but without an iOS version (or a macOS version) I would a very limited number of customers.   And concerning the marketing: a survey among my customers clearly revealed that no customer was acquired via the App Store. 

    So I don't win any customers because I have an iOS version, but I would lose customers if I didn't.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.